Questions to the Minister for Finance and Government Business
Janet Finch-Saunders
11. Will the Minister make a statement on reform of the Barnett formula? OAQ(4)0635(FIN)
Jane Hutt
In line with the Welsh Government’s expectations to secure fair funding for Wales, the UK Government has committed to establishing a Barnett floor alongside the spending review.
Janet Finch-Saunders
Thank you. Indeed, yes, on 10 November, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales said:
‘…this Government are absolutely committed to introducing the funding floor as stated in the…agreement’,
and that they had said that before the election:
‘We will introduce it as part of and alongside the comprehensive spending review.’
Will you join me in welcoming the introduction of this funding floor?
Jane Hutt
We have yet to actually hear the outcome of those discussions. I'm very encouraged by what the Member says. I remain in close contact with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Secretary of State for Wales, pressing our position, and I'm very hopeful that the two Governments can reach agreement on this important issue in the remaining time available.
Spokespersons Questions to the Minister for Public Services
Janet Finch-Saunders
Diolch. In response to the Welsh Government consultation on the reform of local government, the ‘Power to Local People’ White Paper, many respondents called for more transparency and openness in local government. It is this need for transparency and openness I would like to ask you about today, Minister. Only three local authorities in Wales actually publish their responses to freedom of information requests online, despite such publication requiring minimal time and utilising existing resources. Could you comment, Minister, on why local authorities are failing in this role, and what you intend to do about it in any forthcoming legislation that you bring?
Leighton Andrews
Well, it’s interesting to have this question from the Conservatives, when the Conservative UK Government is actually considering how to clamp down on freedom of information access for members of the public.
Janet Finch-Saunders
We’re in Wales.
Leighton Andrews
I find that a very interesting proposition. Clearly, we want to see transparency in local government. We want to see freedom of information. Certainly, I would encourage all local authorities to make freedom of information requests available, as the Welsh Government does.
Janet Finch-Saunders
I don’t need to remind the Minister, surely, that we’re here to scrutinise the actions of the Welsh Government. Despite technology being available and your Government’s funding of a pilot scheme in Ynys Môn, at least five local authorities in Wales still do not stream full council meetings online—despite having had £40,000 per authority to do this. We welcome the progress that’s been made in the area, but I would like to ask what your considerations of the outcome of this pilot scheme are and how you are working to ensure parity of transparency for all across Wales.
Leighton Andrews
Well, we made money available, obviously, to assist local authorities in making their council proceedings more transparent and enabling them to broadcast. We’ve made recommendations in respect of council websites. We’ve encouraged councils to ensure that social media can be used from council meetings. All of these steps are steps that the Welsh Government has taken to improve transparency and accountability.
Janet Finch-Saunders
Finally, Minister, section 5 of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011—brought in by your Government—requires local authorities to make provision for councillors to publish annual reports. Yet, this year and last, an average of only 35 per cent of councillors are doing this, with no councillors whatsoever in Cardiff council producing a report for 2014-15. Now, too often, we all hear how you abrogate your responsibility and say, ‘It’s a matter for local authorities themselves’. This was a Measure that you brought in. So, Minister, what are you doing about local authorities? Do you not believe that we, as Assembly Members—? We actually respond to our electorate, we have surgeries and we have newsletters. This is a Measure you brought in. It is not being carried out. What are you going to do about it?
Leighton Andrews
Well, I’m very glad that the Conservatives support the Measure that was brought in by the Welsh Labour Government to ensure greater transparency of the annual activities of local councillors. We have taken action to ensure that this does take place: I write to leaders to remind them of their obligations in respect of ensuring that local councillors do publish their annual reports, and of course there were further recommendations on this in the White Paper we published in February.
Janet Finch-Saunders
The Welsh Local Government Association has called for a rounded debate on senior salaries following the publication of the TaxPayers’ Alliance town hall rich list last week, which showed the salary of the former chief executive of Gwynedd as £306,000, whilst the salary of the chief exec of Bridgend was £151,000. Minister, it is clear that whatever you’re doing or not doing is definitely not working.
How can you account for this difference of over £150,000 between two chief executives in Welsh local government?
Leighton Andrews
Can I start by saying that I wouldn’t necessarily rely on figures produced by the TaxPayers’ Alliance? I’d rather rely on figures produced by the independent remuneration panel. Let me remind the Member, because she appears to have forgotten, that Pembrokeshire County Council wanted to appoint a chief executive on a salary of £145,000. The independent remuneration panel looked at the situation and suggested a lower salary, and it was that lower salary that was subsequently adopted by that council.
Janet Finch-Saunders
Minister, 12 of the key recommendations of the [Wlliams] commission focus on the need to up the game in terms of the current workings within our public service delivery. Would you not agree that an appropriate way of reforming public service delivery would be to fully define local authority powers, following the ‘Reforming Local Government: Power to Local People’ White Paper, and allow them to inform the restructuring of local government and service delivery, rather than hurriedly producing your own restructuring map before this process was even completed?
Leighton Andrews
Well, one day, I’m accused of proceeding in a hurry to do these things and, on other days, I’m accused of delaying and taking too long to implement them, and usually by the same person. Let me say that, next week, we will publish our draft local government merger Bill, and, on the back of that, the Member may well find some of her questions are being answered.
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Delayed Transfers of Care, and Stay at Home Assessments Policy
Janet Finch-Saunders
May I just put on record how heartened I am to see a new Member coming forward with a solution to a problem that is very endemic in our health service? With 487 hospital beds blocked in Wales, every day, and 129 of those in north Wales, it is crucial that we examine ways of mitigating this and that we look for alternatives to long, avoidable hospital stays. These stays mean delayed transfers, meaning a higher risk of contracting hospital-contracted infections, leading to dangerous side-effects, treatment delay and resource-intensive associated complications, knock-on effects to emergency responses, emergency admissions and waiting lists. Age Cymru and Professor Marcus Longley have highlighted the need for action to reduce the number of patients in hospital who simply shouldn’t be there. This frequent scenario is, too often, created by a lack of simple integration and poor communication between health and social services, which then result in bedblocking, delays in community care arrangements, delays in healthcare assessments and the lack of availability of care home beds. The Wales average for availability of care homes being one of the reasons for delayed transfers is 8.8. Betsi, my own health board, is 27.5 per cent with 37 older patients in September delayed in hospital, simply because they were waiting for availability in a care home setting. Furthermore, in Conwy, over—
David Rees
Thank you for taking the intervention. Clearly, the care home issue is critical, because getting patients into and out of hospital is critical. Are you therefore disappointed that the Prime Minister put a stop to the cap available to encourage more people to go in and put the cost on people who may be at high risk in their homes because of them?
Janet Finch-Saunders
Thank you for your question. We’re looking for solutions here in Wales; I’m not interested in the Prime Minister right now.
Furthermore, in Conwy, over 19 per cent of patients have to wait over 26 weeks for transfers. I’ll tell you now—it’s an absolute scandal—I have a constituent who is in hospital now, and has been for 17 months, because they cannot find an EMI bed suitable for him. That is a national disgrace for this Welsh Government. I’ve also got another constituent who has, for 100 days, been in hospital. It’s a scandal. It needs a solution and a new Member has come forward with one, we should, at least, give him the courtesy of—.
Aled Roberts
Can you explain to us how it is a solution to have an assessment? The problems with regard to care beds are caused by the rates that local authorities are able to pay, which have been reduced time after time, which would be worsened by your proposals for local government funding.
Janet Finch-Saunders
I thank the Member for that, but I’ll be honest with him—a simple fact: my father fell recently and, had he had an assessment, he wouldn’t now be stuck in hospital for about the next 12 weeks, as a result of having broken two bones in his leg at 90 years of age. Had he had an assessment, this wouldn’t have happened, because other alternatives would have been found to cater for his needs. Fact.
Our policy of stay-at-home assessments—[Interruption.]—
Aelod Cynulliad a gododd—
An Assembly Member rose—
Janet Finch-Saunders
With all due respect, I’ve taken too many interventions.
I would like to pay tribute to Altaf Hussain who actually has worked in the medical profession for so many years. The Assembly should be made up of people who can bring real life experience to the Chamber, and we shouldn’t dis them when they do.
Our policy of stay-at-home assessments would be a key early intervention measure, led by social services in collaboration with local third sector expertise. Our policy would provide early identification of health complications, levels of poverty and housing quality. By streamlining the integration of health and social services in this manner, we could see a real reduction in the tensions currently faced by our health services in Wales.
Carers Wales has highlighted the vast contribution that carers give in terms of time, energy and savings—£8.1 billion to the Welsh budget. They warn, too, that if a small percentage of people were unable to continue caring in Wales, this would be catastrophic for the economy. Stay-at-home assessments would and could ensure that support in terms of healthcare, physical assistance or housing adjustments are in place as soon as possible, thereby relieving some of the pressures that carers and our health system are well and truly under.
They would also ensure much improved data collection. The Wales Audit Office has found that a lack of data is making it difficult for councils and health services to demonstrate the impact of their services in supporting the independence of older people, and this weakens their decision making and scrutiny when setting future priorities. With a complete and accurate data pool, health boards and local authorities can better plan their services and budgets. Our innovative, practical and cost-saving policy has the potential to revolutionise Wales as an age-friendly nation, to reduce strain on our NHS, to enable independent living, to empower older people and carers, and engage the local third sector. I urge Members to give this Member the courtesy of some support for this debate.