Janet:
Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, your Green Paper on local government reform is unsurprisingly not going down too well with many local authorities and those working within the sector across Wales. Indeed, having received a substantial number of the same responses to your consultation myself, there is clear evidence already that your proposals are considered to be unworkable, without consideration of the massive challenges facing local authorities, and that they are, in fact, just a simple rehash of a previous Minister's plans. Some of the responses are as follows. The Vale of Glamorgan: the previous Cabinet Secretary promised 10 years of stability; this Cabinet Secretary has not even provided 10 months' worth. Newport: the proposals represent a distraction from the challenge of delivering services and meeting the needs of increasingly complex communities. Monmouthshire: the Green Paper is silent on the core issues that are at the heart of the debate. Caerphilly: we cannot see that a wholesale local government reorganisation is something that should be considered; the financial benefits are debatable at best. Ynys Môn: the First Minister needs to stick his Green Paper in the bin, where it belongs.
Now then, given that local authorities and those responsible for delivering service to our most vulnerable on a daily basis are infuriated, demoralised and disenchanted by your Green Paper, and that, in real terms, these proposals are causing instability and distraction from their already constrained service delivery, what steps will you take to reflect the many well-informed voices speaking up to pull back on these unsettling and disastrous proposals going forward?
Cabinet Secretary:
The Conservative Member uses—[Interruption.] The Conservative Member uses the fact of austerity as if it's the greatest gift that local government has ever received. Let me say this: there are significant issues facing local government today. Most of them are the result of the financial constraints that they face, but not all of them. Welsh local government has, at many times, been clear in itself that 22 local authorities is too many and that it is not sustainable. They've said that on a number of occasions. Now, what we have to do is look to a way forward.
Now, I've heard no response from the Conservative spokesperson on a positive way forward. It's the easiest thing in the world to read the newspapers to Members of the National Assembly, but I would suggest that it's an inadequate response to the challenges facing us. Now, I have said very, very clearly that I want to see a positive debate. I want to see an enriching debate. I want to see a debate about how we devolve powers across Wales and how we empower local authorities and how we empower citizens. And I'll be absolutely clear, as I was in an earlier answer to the Member for Arfon, that it is not politicians, whether in county halls or in this place, that own the governance of our country; it is the people of this country that own the governance of this country.
Janet:
Cabinet Secretary, I have actually responded to your consultation myself; I suggest you haven't read it yet. You continue to repeat the same old line that the Green Paper only sets out the debate on local government reform and the merging of councils, but that isn't really the case, is it? In April, I was made aware that the Labour Party itself was having internal discussions about how to force through your proposals and that one of the ideas discussed is to halve the number of councillors in merged areas, and, at the same time, increase their pay by 62 per cent, from £13,600 to around £22,000 per year, in order to sweeten the deal for mergers and the cutting of numbers of elected members. You may be surprised that I know this, or, there again, you may not know yourself, so far removed are you from the local government community in Wales. For those who have served their time and are wanting to stand down, another proposal of Welsh Labour is to pay those councillors who would lose their seats, based on years of service, around £500 per year, meaning, for someone who's served 20 years, they will get a £10,000 bung. Really, Cabinet Secretary—really, Cabinet Secretary—is this the way that you or a Welsh Labour Government or any Government should be carrying out local government reform, where it's more important to carry out backroom deals with your own Labour councillors than reach cross-party consensus with all across Wales? You'd make a start in this Chamber—during your last contribution, your own backbenchers were speaking up against these proposals. Surely, this does amount to nothing more than a shabby bung to Labour councillors. Personally, I believe the people of Wales deserve better—a pity you don't.
Cabinet Secretary:
Presiding Officer, I was wondering if I'd have another opportunity to speak this afternoon. I have to say, I think she's diminished herself in that previous contribution. I think there was a question there somewhere, although I'm struggling to find it. Let me say this: there has been certainly no debate within the Labour Party of that sort, and, as I said, she diminished herself with that contribution. She may be referring to a report of the remuneration panel for Wales, which is an independent panel, and, if she has any comments to make on those, then she should make those on the record and face up to what she says there. But I have to say this to her: I am considering the report of the remuneration panel for Wales; I have not made any decisions on it, and, when I do take a decision on it, I will publish it. And that report will be from an independent panel. I do hope that she will take the next question as an opportunity to withdraw some of her remarks.
Janet:
Cabinet Secretary, on a point of order, you should not be stood there, telling me that I'm diminishing myself. I have every right to be here to scrutinise and challenge you—and scrutinise and challenge you I will. I have been speaking to the local government community across Wales—I suggest you do. Your Green Paper consultation closed yesterday. This is, in real terms, the sixteenth Welsh Government document outlining reform of some kind to local government structure or working since 2004. And, indeed, in the 20 years of devolution, local government has gone round the table 10 times—there have been 10 Ministers for local government. That doesn't show much importance to this community, which delivers the most vital services. Now, in—. This year, in April, the three fire and local authorities asked you how your local government reform will fit with the reform to their structures—because you're even trying to challenge them at the moment—and you haven't answered that question. Additionally, we know that local government has integral links with other areas of the public service delivery, such as the health service, education, provision of housing and social care, and, particularly, the considerable concerns facing the health service in Wales, including nursing and doctor shortages, systematic failures to keep to waiting times, health board overspends -
- continuing direct governmental control of Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board. I have asked you before, and I'll ask you again, and it'll go on record again: what discussions have you taken with your other Welsh Government Secretaries responsible for the delivery of those public services about working together in a strategic manner, or is it simply the case that those discussions haven't taken place, and this is simply you going off on a tangent to rehash old and tired plans that were firmly squashed once before?