Janet Finch-Saunders
Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, I’m sure that you would agree with me—in fact, you’ve stated it many times here in the Senedd—that openness and transparency and good councillor conduct are key to engagement with our political democracy and to attracting people to have faith in our political system, ultimately then helping us to attract more people to stand as candidates. Sadly, however, I have an e-mail here, sent by a Swansea Labour councillor, Mark Child, to colleagues in your Labour Party and it was sent from his council e-mail address. I’ll be sending you a copy of the said e-mail, but I will read a very short extract:
Hi David et al, Next full council is Thursday 26th of October…There is an opportunity to ask questions from the public gallery at full council.’
It goes on to ask party colleagues to help find members of the public to ask a range of questions on their behalf. In relation to one question on cycle paths, the councillor asks,
Could someone ask whose idea this was so we can reply “this was Labour’s proposals for Bishopston”‘.
Do you think this kind of thing helps the public to have confidence in local government? As the Cabinet member—[Interruption.]—with responsibility for local government, will you investigate this blatant and utter disregard for due procedure and for making a mockery of the public questions available in some local authorities?
Mark Drakeford
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I look forward to seeing the e-mail in full. So far as I’ve been able to understand it from listening to it, I hear a publicly elected person encouraging the idea that members of the public might come and ask questions at a public hearing of the council. I’m struggling, so far, to see what the difficulty with that would be, and I’m perfectly certain that all political parties here take the trouble to make sure that their members are informed and, when there are matters that are of interest to them, that they are able to come and take part in democratic forums.
Janet Finch-Saunders
I’m sorry, Cabinet Secretary, but I don’t think you understand local government proceedings. This is time allocated to members of the public who are then able to come along and scrutinise what they are genuinely interested in. It isn’t for a political party, of any colour, to actually feed questions to people to do that in order that they might score some kinds of political points. Frankly—and the fact that you’re laughing about this, I find it disgraceful of you as Cabinet Secretary, who should be, actually, embracing and encouraging true local democracy. This is an absolute mockery. Now, it is evident that the Labour Party is seeking to manipulate full council by drafting in stooges to ask planted questions. I actually hope that you will take this matter seriously. They should not be using their publicly funded office for party gain, and wouldn’t you agree with me that this is, in fact, a breach of councillor conduct and it should be referred to the standards committee? I’ll certainly be looking into it. Will you be asking your colleague, even the First Minister if you’re not prepared to, to investigate this conduct? But will you, at the very least, condemn in the strongest terms any council in Wales, or any political party that has elected councillors in Wales, that subverts proper scrutiny in this way?
Mark Drakeford
Let me begin by saying, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I think it is very important that all citizens in Wales who have an interest in the proceedings of democratic bodies are able to take part to the fullest available extent in the work of those bodies, in asking questions and in scrutinising people who take decisions on their behalf. If the Member believes that there has been some breach of proper procedure, then her tender interest in procedures would have led her to conclude that the right thing to do is to draw that breach to the attention of those authorities responsible for monitoring those breaches, not spraying around suggestions that it should be followed up by people who have no such responsibility. So, if she has a complaint, and she believes she has, she should report it in the proper way, and then make sure that it is investigated in a proper way. As I say, so far, from what I’ve heard her read out this afternoon, what I’ve heard her read out is members of the public being encouraged to come and take part in democratic debate.
Janet Finch-Saunders
Well, that, to me, just says that you’ve abrogated your responsibility as a Cabinet Secretary. These issues—[Interruption.] These issues partly explain the lack of public trust in politics, and I want to ask you about candidacy now in Wales, which is at crisis point. In September, the Electoral Commission reported that 7 per cent—that’s 7 per cent—of all county and borough seats were held unopposed at the elections in May. Now, 100 per cent of the town and community council seats in our capital city of Cardiff were uncontested or vacant in this year’s elections. Hoping to increase interest in candidacy through local government reform will not be enough. This is where nobody came forward and were encouraged to come forward to stand for seats in a democratic election in May. I think that, again, is a failure of this Welsh Labour Government. Will you commit your Government, going forward, to taking proactive steps to tackle this democratic—? And just for all the muttering of the backbenchers: at the end of the day, as I’ve said on many occasions, we haven’t had the chance yet to lead on some of the portfolios here that are held by Welsh Labour Members, but I’m telling you now that I can tell you that if Welsh Conservatives were leading local government in Wales, I can assure the members of the public there would be more openness, democracy and democratic accountability.
Mark Drakeford
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I share the Member’s anxiety at the number of uncontested seats in town and community councils in Wales in May’s elections. I want us to do more as a Government, but it is not just for governments to be taking action in that regard. In our principal council elections, there were more candidates than ever before, and that’s a sign that efforts can be successful in bringing more people forward for election. I’m very proud to be a member of a party that fielded many hundreds more candidates than her party fielded in those elections. I say to her that just as Government does have a responsibility to make sure that the position of a town and community councillor is made attractive and is widely advertised, we, all of us as separate political parties, have a responsibility to try and encourage people to stand for election, and the fact that there were no elections to town and community councils in Cardiff is as much a reflection on her party’s inability to find people to stand for those posts as it is of any other political party.